{"id":30746,"date":"2018-11-02T03:44:04","date_gmt":"2018-11-02T10:44:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/?p=30746"},"modified":"2018-11-01T16:21:22","modified_gmt":"2018-11-01T23:21:22","slug":"disagreeing-respectfully","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/2018\/11\/02\/disagreeing-respectfully\/","title":{"rendered":"Disagreeing respectfully"},"content":{"rendered":"

Left to right: Nico Slobinsky (CIJA Pacific Region), Rabbi Adam Stein (Beth Israel), Rabbi Andrew Rosenblatt (Schara Tzedeck), speakers J.J. Goldberg and Jonathan S. Tobin, Cynthia Ramsay (Jewish Independent<\/em>), Rabbi Hannah Dresner (Or Shalom and RAV) and Rabbi Dan Moskovitz (Temple Sholom). (photo by Glen Bullard)<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWe have lost the ability to listen to each other. We have lost the ability to credit each other with good intentions when we disagree\u2026. What we must do is somehow regain a sense of community.\u201d<\/p>\n

In his response to the last audience question at Left vs. Right: The Battle for Israel\u2019s Soul, Jonathan S. Tobin, editor-in-chief of JNS.org and a contributing writer for National Review<\/em>, among other publications, went on to say what he hoped the audience would take away from his 90-minute debate with J.J. Goldberg, editor-at-large and senior commentator at the Jewish Daily Forward.<\/em><\/p>\n

\u201cYou have to open yourself up to both sides,\u201d said Tobin. \u201cYou have to relearn the ability to listen, to be open. If you agreed with J.J., maybe you should read some of the things that I write\u2026 If you agreed with me, read J.J. at the Forward<\/em> and his column\u2026. It\u2019s not what we\u2019re used to anymore because we live in these social media silos\u2026. It\u2019s what we have to model for our kids. It\u2019s what we have to model for ourselves because, when we listen, when we open ourselves up to ideas that are different from our own, that don\u2019t just confirm what we already thought, we are reminded of something that is always true but we often forget…. That which unites us is still stronger than that which divides us.\u201d<\/p>\n

Ten community organizations united to host the Oct. 23 event in the Wosk Auditorium at the Jewish Community Centre of Greater Vancouver: the Jewish Federation of Greater Vancouver, the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs, the JCCGV, the Jewish Independent<\/em>, Ameinu, Or Shalom, Congregation Schara Tzedeck, Congregation Beth Israel, Temple Sholom and the Rabbinical Association of Vancouver (RAV).<\/p>\n

In his response to the last question of the night \u2013 on how young people could have similar respectful dialogues on Israel, which the speakers broadened to include all community members \u2013 Goldberg stressed the importance of having self-doubt. \u201cIf you believe the other side is saying something that could bring about the end of the world, the death of the Jewish people, you\u2019re not going to be tolerant. And, as Jonathan says, if you listen, look for the grain of truth, because then you can allow yourself not to shout and scream when you hear something you don\u2019t like, because it\u2019s not the end of the world.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rabbi Hannah Dresner, spiritual leader of Or Shalom and head of the RAV, welcomed the approximately 100 people who came to hear Goldberg and Tobin engage in a formal debate on four prepared questions, and then on a handful of questions from the audience. \u201cOur guests hold differing points of view and speak to one another with respect and we would like all to follow their examples,\u201d she said. While there was some audible discomfort from listeners in a couple of instances, it was a model event, made easier by the fact that it featured two journalists who may disagree on the details, but who both agree that Israel has a right to exist and that Israel has a right to defend itself. As well, neither speaker is an ardent supporter of U.S. President Donald Trump \u2013 although Tobin gave the president credit for moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem and reinstating sanctions against Iran to delay its attainment of nuclear weapons, he criticized Trump\u2019s relationship with Russia. One has to separate Trump the man and his Twitter account from the policies the administration has implemented, said Tobin. \u201cIt\u2019s clear,\u201d he said, \u201cthat Israel can count on the United States, certainly it can count on this administration to have its back.\u201d<\/p>\n

Tobin made these comments in response to the first question of the night, which was about Trump and whether Israel could rely on an \u201cunstable United States as a shield in an unstable Middle East.\u201d Goldberg was more concerned than Tobin, saying that character counts. \u201cHaving a president who is lacking in elementary characteristics of personal ethics and grace is a problem,\u201d he said. \u201cIt is a problem that this is a president who has no respect or loyalty for America\u2019s allies; and says he\u2019s in love with the dictator in North Korea, who, by the way, does have nuclear bombs; and who can\u2019t say a bad word about the dictator of Russia\u2026. If Canada can\u2019t rely on the United States, and France and Germany and Sweden can\u2019t rely on the United States, how long can Israel rely on the United States?\u201d<\/p>\n

Goldberg and Tobin also had opposing views as to the continued relevance of a two-state Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement and whether the construction of settlements is an obstacle to peace.<\/p>\n

Goldberg pointed to the 2002 Arab League declaration, which outlined the terms under which they would recognize Israel and normalize relations with it; the declaration has been renewed since then and, last year, \u201cIran voted yes.\u201d He said we believed the Arab countries when, in the 1970s, they were talking about \u201cdriving Israel into the sea,\u201d and we should believe them now when they say they would accept Israel. He argued that peace negotiations have not failed but been continually interrupted, giving several examples, including the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin and Ehud Olmert\u2019s having to step down as prime minister when he was indicted on corruption charges.<\/p>\n

While a two-state solution is the most rational, said Tobin, he argued that Israelis have made several attempts at peace and have shown their willingness to trade land for peace, but they are rightfully not willing to trade land for terror, which is what Israel got after the withdrawal from Gaza.<\/p>\n

On the question of how much world opinion should matter to Israel, both Tobin and Goldberg said it does. Tobin gave examples \u2013 such as diplomatic trips to Africa by Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu \u2013 of how Israel is not isolated, despite an increase in the world of antisemitism disguised as anti-Israel sentiment. The boycott, divestment and sanction (BDS) movement, he said, won\u2019t hurt Israel, but us. \u201cTheir target is us \u2013 Jews, Jews here,\u201d he said. \u201cWe are their target. That\u2019s why resistance against BDS, fighting back against it is, I think, the issue that should unite us, if anything could. It\u2019s not a liberal issue, it\u2019s not a conservative issue, it\u2019s a Jewish issue.\u201d<\/p>\n

Goldberg said Israel \u201cpretty much controls events on the ground\u201d \u2013 noting that cooperation between Israeli and Palestinian security forces has decreased the number of deaths caused by terrorism significantly \u2013 but that the Palestinians \u201chave the advantage in international opinion: they\u2019re the underdogs, they\u2019re the Third World, they\u2019re the people of colour\u201d and they use this advantage \u201cas a way of fighting back against Israel.\u201d<\/p>\n

That said, Goldberg contended that Islam aspires to rule the world and there are Muslims who believe that to the extent that they will use violence. However, he added, no matter how right Israel is to defend itself, the optics of a tank shooting at a kid throwing rocks can never \u201clook good on television\u201d and \u201cantisemitism increases, in part, because people are mad at Israel.\u201d Since Diaspora Jews are one with Israel, then they become a target: \u201cAn Arab who\u2019s willing to blow up a bus full of children in Haifa, who had nothing to do with this, is certainly willing to blow up a Federation building in Seattle.\u201d World opinion is a problem \u201cbecause there\u2019s a war going on and it hasn\u2019t ended yet,\u201d he said. \u201cIf and when Israel enters into negotiations with the Arab League \u2026 one of the things Israel can and must demand is that Saudi Arabia stop teaching the hatred of Jews that it teaches in schools and mosques around the world.\u201d<\/p>\n

In response to the question about how Jews should position themselves in \u201cthis polarized and hyper-partisan political culture,\u201d Goldberg said, \u201cIf we are attached to Israel at a time when our traditional allies on the left, in the liberal world, are souring on Israel, we don\u2019t have to accept that. If the right is becoming more extreme \u2026 there are reasons we have our social values and we don\u2019t need to give them up to be friends with the pro-Israel forces on the right.\u201d<\/p>\n

Goldberg noted that we often consider antisemitism, but overlook the respect the world holds towards Jews \u2013 as evidenced by the number of Nobel Prize winners, and three Jews out of nine justices on the U.S. Supreme Court. He said we must use this respect \u201cnot only to advance our own particular interests in defending our brothers and sisters in Israel, but in also defending the things that we believe in and the things that we believe make a better world.\u201d<\/p>\n

Tobin, on the other hand, said, \u201cAs Jews, we have an issue that should unite us \u2013 the survival of the Jewish people, the survival of the Jewish state. That should be a priority. We are probably more divided on it than we are on abortion, as my friend [J.J.] likes to say, but that is still our first obligation. And when we put that aside and instead favour partisanship, our partisan loyalties over that, I think we\u2019re doing a disservice to our community\u2026.\u201d<\/p>\n

By the end of the night, Goldberg and Tobin fielded nine questions, responding to audience members\u2019 concerns about such issues as the health of Israel\u2019s democracy \u2013 Tobin thinks it is not declining, while Goldberg observed that the way in which governments are elected means that a democratically elected government does not always reflect the will of the majority population. They also responded to questions about the lack of leadership on the Israeli left, the impact of the ultra-Orthodox on Israeli society in the long-term, Trump\u2019s popularity in Israel and how we can enable young people to have such discussions as took place that night.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Left to right: Nico Slobinsky (CIJA Pacific Region), Rabbi Adam Stein (Beth Israel), Rabbi Andrew Rosenblatt (Schara Tzedeck), speakers J.J. Goldberg and Jonathan S. Tobin, Cynthia Ramsay (Jewish Independent), Rabbi Hannah Dresner (Or Shalom and RAV) and Rabbi Dan Moskovitz (Temple Sholom). (photo by Glen Bullard) \u201cWe have lost the ability to listen to each […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":30747,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[4],"tags":[801,3555,3976,7724,4330,8429,8430,2721,3597,5080],"class_list":["post-30746","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-local","tag-antisemitism","tag-bds","tag-boycott","tag-civil-discourse","tag-israel","tag-j-j-goldberg","tag-jonathan-s-tobin","tag-peace","tag-politics","tag-trump"],"blocksy_meta":{"styles_descriptor":{"styles":{"desktop":"","tablet":"","mobile":""},"google_fonts":[],"version":8}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/30746","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=30746"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/30746\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/30747"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=30746"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=30746"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jewishindependent.ca\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=30746"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}