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May 23, 2003
Prof. Charles Liebman speaks up
Winner of the 2003 Israel Prize in political science shares his
views on assimilation in Israel and the Diaspora.
EDGAR ASHER SPECIAL TO THE JEWISH BULLETIN
One of the state ceremonies held every year on Israel's Independence
Day is the presentation of the Israel Prize by the country's president.
This most prestigious of awards is given to individuals and institutions
who have excelled in their contributions to science, humanities
and the arts. And this year's Israel Prize in political science
has been awarded to Prof. Charles S. Liebman.
The Israel Prize has been called Israel's Nobel Prize and prize
laureates have included some of Israel's most illustrious scientists,
writers and artists. The winners also receive a monetary award of
$10,000. The awarding of the prize to Liebman was in recognition
of his work as one of the Jewish world's leading analysts of Israeli
and American Jewish communities and of Israel-Diaspora relations.
Until his retirement this year, Liebman was the director of the
Argov Centre for the Study of Israel and the Jewish People at Bar
Ilan University. Born in 1934 in New York, he was sent by his parents
to study in a Tel-Aviv high school. After matriculation, he returned
to the United States to study at university. In 1969, he returned
to Israel permanently, this time with his wife, Carol, and their
three children.
Liebman describes himself as an Orthodox, pluralistic Jew and, as
such, has devoted himself to voluntary organizations that promote
religious and secular renewal. In the past 40 years, he has published
many books and papers on Jewish sociology and this has established
him as one of the world's leading experts on Jewish continuity and
assimilation.
Liebman is as active as ever despite his retirement from Bar Ilan.
He took some time out to talk with me just before leaving Israel
for seven weeks to study Jewish community problems in Russia.
E.A.: Why do you feel that in the war against assimilation
it is so important to go after committed Jews rather than try and
bring marginalized Jews back into the Jewish sphere of influence?
C.L.: It's much more important to invest in more committed
than in the totally non-committed, because the totally peripheral
Jews have no interest
in Judaism.
In a free society, where people have the right to choose and opt
out, it is not at all difficult not to be Jewish. It is to be expected
that there will be many who have been born or raised as Jews who
no longer feel any Jewish commitment. It's their right and it's
a waste of energy, time and money to try and invest in bringing
them back.
There is another point – I don't find it objectionable when
groups who are strongly committed to Judaism try to appeal to the
peripheral, assimilated Jew. I see no harm and they do sometimes
succeed. But what I find very worrisome is the fact that there is
a major effort to talk to the peripheral Jews by groups who are
themselves somewhat marginal to Judaism. In the process, they reinvent
a Judaism to appeal to the assimilated and distort Judaism.
I'll give you an example. Clal is a major organization in the United
States that looks to appeal to the peripheral Jew. Clal was founded
by Rabbi Irving Greenberg, an Orthodox rabbi, but he is no longer
connected with them today. Their leadership celebrates anything
that has the name Jewish in it. They don't think that, for example,
being pro-Israel or being observant are important markers for what
makes a "good" Jew. What makes a "good" Jew
is if a person feels he is Jewish. This is what I call assimilation
from within. Jews stop being Jewish although they call themselves
Jewish. That is the danger we run [into] when we try and appeal
to the peripheral Jew in order to make Judaism pleasant and happy
for him.
E.A.: Are Reform and Conservative forms of Judaism an indication
of the breakdown of the appeal of mainstream Orthodoxy or do they
generally represent a breath of fresh air and new thinking?
C.L.: I'm not a fan of Conservative or Reform Judaism, but
they are there because they serve a constituency who are interested
in what they have to offer. I have very good friends in the Conservative
movement and we have worked together. I'm very disappointed in some
of the things the Conservative movement has done, but I am very
disappointed with what every group that I know has done. I'm an
angry young man.
E.A.: In a survey last year, the total world Jewish population
was put at just over 12 million. For the purpose of this survey,
a Jew was simply someone who called himself a Jew and had some connection
with the community. What is this figure going to be in five years
time and in 50 years?
C.L.: I have to answer this question as a social scientist,
not as a believing Jew. We have evidence of groups that get along
with even fewer numbers. Zoroastrians are a good example and the
Zoroastrians are very interested in the Jews for that reason. They
don't have schools the way the Jews do and they have a rough time
in preserving themselves. [Zoroastrianism was one of the world's
major religions some 2,000 years ago, having its roots in Persia.
It had a considerable influence on the development of religious
thought in Judaism and Christianity.] We can manage with fewer Jews
and, in the future, there are going to be fewer Jews than today.
The demography points to this, unless there is going to be massive
conversion.
E.A.: You promote religious and secular Jewish renewal. Is
it actually possible to promote two concepts that are such opposites?
C.L.: What I'm concerned with as an Israeli or, for that matter,
as an American, is strengthening the Jewish sense and the fact that
being Jewish is meaningful. I think that religion is a very important
component in this and it is hard for me personally to see this without
religious behavior. What do I do with a Jew who comes and says,
"I'm not interested in the religious stuff, the religious stuff
doesn't talk to me. I'm very interested in Jewish history and I
want to behave as a Jew, believe in the kind of stuff that religious
Jews believe in," and the answer is that I am prepared to accept
that Jew on his own terms. He obviously hasn't trivialized Judaism
and I will do whatever I can to help him. I will work with him to
strengthen his Jewish identity. If he is a committed secular Jew,
I'm not worried about his Jewish identity, it's his problem. I might
tell him, if I'm friendly enough, that he might have trouble with
his children. I think it is difficult to transmit secular Jewish
identity, but I am prepared to accept him as a secular Jew on his
own terms.
E.A.: How can Orthodoxy reach out to secular Jews when, in
Israel for example, there is such opposition to basic Jewish religious
instruction in secular schools?
C.L.: We have to separate religion and Jewishness. The Orthodox,
not all of them but many of them, come with a chip on their shoulder.
You have to know how to speak to somebody who isn't Orthodox. The
problem with Orthodoxy is that it equates Jewishness, Judaism and
Orthodoxy and it just isn't true ... the vast majority of Jews in
the world are not interested in Orthodoxy and many of them are not
even interested in the Jewish religion.
If you ask me what Orthodoxy should do, the best thing would be
to move away and leave a space for people who are going to be more
successful. If you want to stay in the arena, then you have got
to be more open to accept in a limited sense people on their own
terms.... There are 80 or 90 organizations in Israel that are committed
to what they call Jewish pluralism. Most of these organizations
would not have been established without some help from some Orthodox
Jews. There's money and active participation from Orthodox Jews,
but they are of a certain kind of Orthodox Jew who share the values
that I have expressed. It is basically that they have an empathy.
E.A.: In what sector of the Jewish community should most
effort be made to maintain Jewish continuity?
C.L.: Obviously with young people.
E.A.: Is the Birthright program a way forward to reviving
Jewish interest with an Israel angle or are its hopes and aspirations
misplaced? Could the effort and money be directed in other ways
to sow the seed of Jewish identity?
C.L.: When I read about the Birthright program I was very,
very skeptical. Issy Liebler had written a piece in the Jerusalem
Post and I would have signed on to everything he said opposed to
Birthright. Since then, I have read the evaluation of the Birthright
program done by very careful people for whom I have a great deal
of respect. These programs have been very successful. I was wrong,
Issy Liebler was wrong. I don't quite understand why Birthright
is so successful other than to think that it touches some kind of
spark that exists in the heart of Jews, etc., etc. The ultimate
test of Birthright is what happens 10 years after the youngsters
have visited Israel and there is no test of that. However, the initial
evaluation of Birthright shows that it has been enormously successful.
Edgar Asher is with Isranet news and Media Service.
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